Some Support for the Pre-Trib Rapture -- but is Tribulation the same as Wrath?

Hope I get back to the posts I began but didn't finish. But if I don't, I'll move them up for when I do get to deal with them.

Right now I want to post this article which argues FOR the rapture, and pretty convincingly I'd say. Again remember I'm not really up on all the facets of the different end times/eschatalogical theories so what I have to say in response to this argument is subject to change at any time. This article was a link from Olive Tree Ministries, so I take it to be more or less endorsed by Jan Markell just because I know she is a pre-trib-rapture believer.

Thirty–Six Pre-Trib Rapture Texts By Daymond Duck:

1) There are no passages in either the Old Testament or the New Testament that say the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.

This probably depends a great deal on how terms such as "Israel" are understood in particular passages, because SOMETIMES it does describe the Church, which includes both Jew and Gentile. This is something I would have to study verse by verse to argue effectively one way or the other, of course, so all I can do now is just register some general thoughts. Also, since the Church HAS gone through great tribulation ever since its inception and was going through it as some of the New Testament books were being written, especially the horrific persecution under Nero, it seems implicit in the text and unnecessary to spell it out further.

2) The Tribulation Period is called the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” [The time of unbelieving Israel’s Trouble], but it is never called the time of the Church’s Trouble (Jer. 30:7).

I do think this is a strong argument, hingeing on the difference between calling the Jews by the name of "Jacob" which identifies them as a people but not as believers, and "Israel" which is the name God gave to Jacob when Jacob was truly converted [Genesis 32:27-28 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed].

However, I believe there is a line of argument that puts "the time of Jacob's trouble" at the Holocaust under Nazi Germany. I think this is a thin argument myself and that there is bound to be yet another time of Jacob's trouble to come. This doesn't necessarily prove the Rapture, however, though it does suggest that if this time of trouble is the same as the Great Tribulation that only unbelieving Jews will be involved in it.

3) Gabriel told Daniel, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people [Daniel’s people are the Jews] and upon thy holy city” [The Holy City is Jerusalem] (Dan. 9:24). There is no mention of the Church.

4) The Church had no part in the first sixty-nine weeks and it will have no part in the seventieth week [the Tribulation Period] (Dan. 9:24).

"Daniel's people" could just as well be all believers as the Jews, and "the Church" refers to the body of believers.

However, historically the sixty-nine weeks ("weeks" means "sevens" so this means 69 x 7 years) occurred before Christ came, in fact by one famous reckoning they can be counted right up to the day that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the donkey. This leaves one "week" or seven years to complete the prophecy that have not yet been fulfilled. And I do think this is a good argument that since the first 69 occurred before the coming of Christ, that the 70th could very well involve only the Jews.

Also, yes, the "holy city" can only mean Jerusalem.

Does this prove the Rapture of the Church? Certinaly not directly. All this could possibly describe events in Israel itself while the Church remains on earth.

5) In the Book of Revelation, the Rapture occurs at Rev. 4:1 which is before the Tribulation Period described in Rev. 6:1-19:21. In the sequence of events, the Rapture is before the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments.

Yes, IF it's right to interpret Revelation 4:1 (John's being invited to see future events from heaven) as referring to the Rapture, but that depends on already accepting the Rapture idea so that this passage would happen to fit right into it.

Revelation 4:1-2 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

If the Rapture is not assumed, the verse appears only to be describing a change of perspective from earth to heaven, to make sense of the heavily symbolic imagery that begins at this point. There is nothing ELSE to designate this event -- John's being carried into heaven -- as indicating the Rapture. He describes the dazzling throne room of God but nothing suggestive of the welcome and comforts the Church would presumably find at the Rapture.

One other point: The writer interprets the events of Revelation as sequential in time so that if 4:1 DOES refer to the Rapture it then of course precedes the Tribulation which is described from 6 through 19:21. I personally think it makes sense to interpret it sequentially myself, but I have to note that some treat the symbolic imagery as different versions of the same message meant to apply to Christians in all ages, and there are other approaches to Revelation too. They've never been convincing to me so I'm just noting their existence in case it turns out there's something to some of them.

6) The Church is mentioned more than twenty times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but the Church is never mentioned in the description of the Tribulation Period between Rev. 4:1 and Rev. 19:1.

This is a pretty good argument I'd say. The Church IS explicitly referred to in the first three chapters of Revelation and not again. The imagery of the Book of Revelation has been rightly described as belonging to the type of Old Testament prophecies, and this does strongly suggest the idea that God does plan to round out His dealings with planet Earth by a return to His Old Testament people.

HOWEVER, there is this objection that occurred to me as I was reading Revelation: In Rev 6 the fifth seal refers to the martyrs under the altar asking how long they must wait. These are the Church, aren't they? The Church meaning ALL, Jew and Gentile. So it's not true that the Church is not mentioned after 4:1. They are told they must wait a while longer, until the rest of the preordained martyrs join them.

One has to ask how it could be that ANY of the Church could be in heaven going on waiting for the fullness of their number to join them IF the rapture has supposedly occurred and other members of the Church are enjoying the wedding feast of the lamb. And again, how could any of the Church be yet outside, those martyrs yet to come, during the feast and therefore missing it too?

Then Revelation 6 ends with the opening of the 6th seal and the announcement that the Wrath of the Lamb has now come. If wrath begins at this point shouldn't the Rapture occur at this point and not before?

7) The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph 1:15), but the Bible says, “God hath not appointed us [the Church] to wrath” (I Thess. 5:9).

8) The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph. 1:15), but the Bible says, Jesus has “delivered us from the wrath to come” [delivered the Church from the Tribulation Period] (I Thess. 1:10).

9) The Tribulation Period is called the Day of the Lord in the Bible (Zeph. 1:14). The Bible says, “the day of the Lord [the Tribulation Period] so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they [the unbelievers] shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them [upon the unbelievers], as travail upon a woman with child; and they [the unbelievers] shall not escape” (I Thess. 5:2-3). It clearly teaches that the Tribulation Period will come upon unbelievers, but it does not include believers.

This I will have to think about quite a bit, because in my mind tribulation is NOT God's wrath. Tribulation is brought against the church by the powers that follow Satan, and the Church -- INCLUDING THE OLD TESTAMENT CHURCH RIGHTLY UNDERSTOOD -- has always had to suffer tribulation, while wrath is God's judgment against unbelievers -- though often believers can't help but get caught in it too. In the case of the Great Tribulation, is this now to be understood as God's wrath?

In favor of this argument, the judgments described in the Book of Revelation that are released with the opening of the Seals certainly ARE God's wrath and not the kind of tribulation the Church has always gone through, so THAT is an argument for the Rapture it seems to me. So I'm having a terminological problem with tribulation versus wrath I have yet to sort out.

10) Concerning the Rapture, the Bible says, “Comfort one another with these words” (I Thess. 4:18). There’s no comfort in the teaching that the Church will go through part or all of the Tribulation Period.

Yes, if the Tribulation IS God's wrath there's certainly no comfort in that idea. BUT what ABOUT the fact that all over the world NOW as well as down through the centuries the true Church has ALWAYS suffered tremendous tribulation at the hands of unbelievers? Why should WE expect to escape THAT? Or is that a separate category of suffering that we need to consider separately?

What ABOUT Corrie Ten Boom's warning? She pointed out that trust in the Rapture has left Christians in other parts of the world cruelly unprepared for the persecutions they have had to endure -- in China, in Africa. There have always been such persecutions and in our time they've come under the Communists in Russia and China, under Islam, under the Hindus in India, and they continue all over the world even today.

We have not yet experienced it in the West but isn't it still possible that it is coming to us soon? ALL THE SIGNS ARE THAT IRRATIONAL HATRED FOR CHRISTIANS HAS BEEN INCREASING no matter what our efforts against it. This is NOT God's wrath, this is persecution, and Jesus told us that we WILL suffer tribulation in this world.

Josef Tson, a Rumanian pastor who was persecuted under Ceaucescu, has warned Americans about this growing atmosphere of hostility to Christians in America and the West that we need to prepare for. This very real possiblity can't just be put aside while we contemplate a Rapture that might or might not occur. If it is to occur, it nevertheless should not be taken to preclude this very real possibility -- it must be discussed as a separate concern.

11) Jesus told the Church at Philadelphia, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation [the Tribulation Period], which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev. 3:10). God promised to keep the obedient Church members out of the Tribulation Period.

OK. This is clearly a promise of protection from suffering, but it can't mean to promise that all Christians will always be kept from persecution.

THIS PROBLEM HAS TO BE ADDRESSED BY PEOPLE WHO PROMOTE THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE AND I HAVE NOT SEEN IT ADDRESSED ANYWHERE.

12) According to the Bible, the marriage of the Lamb will take place in heaven before Jesus comes back to fight the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation Period (Rev. 19:7-21). This means the Church will go to heaven [be Raptured] for the marriage of the Lamb before the Second Coming.

Again, this depends on how strictly the Book of Revelation is to be read chronologically. And this also raises the knotty question why those who survive the Great Tribulation are not part of the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. Doesn't this split the Church in a way that the New Testament disavows, as aren't we all, Jew and Gentile, one in Christ Jesus? How can people who are true saints miss the wedding feast?

13) The end of the age will be like the days of Noah (Matt. 24:37). Noah and his family were removed from the earth [got on the ark] before the flood. Some believe this means that the Church will be removed from the earth before the judgment of God [Raptured before the Tribulation Period] (Gen. 7:23).

This interpretation does make sense to me. Parallel events are very biblical. When Jesus says that two will be in the field, or at the mill, and one will be "taken" and the other "left" this same scenario is implied. [Matthew 24:40-41 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.]

But a problem with this is that those who were left all died in the Flood. It doesn't parallel the Flood to expect to get a new crop of saints out of the Great Tribulation if the Church has escaped it. Only wrath on unbelievers would fit the parallel, and NOBODY would escape.

14) The end of the age will be like the days of Lot (Luke 17:28). Lot and his family were removed from Sodom before the judgment of God [before the fire and brimstone fell] (Gen. 19:16). Some believe this means that the Church will be removed from the earth before the judgment of God [Raptured before the Tribulation Period].

Same problem. ALL in Sodom were destroyed except the few who escaped.

15) Jesus was talking about the Tribulation Period when He said, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass” (Luke 21:36). It seems unreasonable to believe Jesus would tell the Church to pray for something He is unwilling to grant.

True, but Jesus ALSO said we WOULD have tribulation in this world and Christians have been severely persecuted, eaten by lions, subjected to diabolical tortures and the like from the beginning. Too often such promises of escape keep Christians from anticipating these "normal" persecutions, and again, those who are making this argument NEED TO ADDRESS THIS DIFFERENCE.

TO BE CONTINUED.