Rome past present and future

Thanks to Chris Pinto I'm now convinced of at least some elements of an end-times system called Historicism, as opposed to Premillennialism, Amillennialism, etc. etc. I haven't studied it yet and all I really know is that he and others -- ex-Catholic priest Richard Bennett for instance -- have shown that the Catholic Church was recognized by true Christians from very early on as the Harlot Church described in the Book of Revelation.

That means that at least some of the scripture verses that these days are often taken to refer to future events have already been fulfilled, most of them having to do with the Antichrist and the false church of Rome. That doesn't mean that there can't be yet a future fulfillment of all these things as well since the Catholic Church is hardly a thing of the past.

I haven't yet embraced Historicism as a system, all I know is that I've been learning a great deal about church history lately, things today's churches don't seem to know anything about, that don't fit into any of the other end times systems.

It still seems to me that the seventieth week of Daniel is awaiting future fulfillment. It may be that some events today's churches often think of as yet future and belonging to that future period of seven years have already been fulfilled, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of their also having a future fulfillment as well. But there can only be one fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week, and that must be future.

In light of what I've been learning it's rather depressing to hear Christian ministries, even watchmen/discernment type ministries, talk about the Roman Church as if it were a Christian Church, such as Jan Markell's ministry Understanding the Times where today she was interviewing Ray Comfort about the Holocaust and neither of them seemed to have a clue to the dominating role of Rome in that event, and in fact the modeling of the Holocaust on the Inquisition. Such as the yellow star to identify the Jews, which goes back to the Inquisition.

And here the European Union is shaping up to be the Fourth Reich or Holy Roman Empire and few have any idea. Great Tribulation (insofar as there is yet to come a future expression of this) = revived Inquisition, new Holocaust?

Enter Stage Left, Right, Above, Beneath, Front, Rear and Center: Antichrist

Seems like just recently, a matter of mere months maybe, I've become aware of developments in the world and the church that are all moving toward the final stage setting for the Day of the Lord, the last act of the great drama of Planet Earth. The internet radio ministries I've linked on the right margin are my main sources of this information and anyone who wants to follow all this only needs to go and listen to as many recent broadcasts as you can. Also go to You Tube and watch Chris Pinto's films. [Actually, older broadcasts are as good as the recent ones].

I get the feeling that these events themselves have in fact been proliferating, and that may well be the case. It's like watching the stage hands rushing to get the props in place just before the curtain goes up on the final Act. But on the other hand it may only be that I've become aware of them. The movies by Chris Pinto, for instance, have been out for years and deal with historical events going back centuries, but I've only been learning about them recently.

The main movement is in the direction of the Catholic Church: "Protestants" who are really Catholics (the Archibishop of Canterbury), and Protestants who are leaning toward Rome. Emergent Church tending in that direction. Glenn Beck is a Mormon but there are Christians who say he is a Christian nevertheless, David Barton being one of them. Beck has been getting together with the Pope, and his wide audience gets a pretty heavy dose of ecumenical philosophy, the hope of bringing all the religions under one worldwide religion. Which will of course be headed by Rome.

I've been hearing a lot about the Jesuits recently, who are engaged in all kinds of intrigues on behalf of Rome, political as well as church-related, who apparently even pretend to be Protestants, or whatever seems to be required, all in the service of bringing as many as possible under the Pope.

I've believed for years that the papacy is the Antichrist system. I haven't been completely convinced that the final Antichrist will be the last Pope though that is still a very strong possibility* -- at the very least the Vatican is going to have some kind of dominating position in the finale of Planet Earth -- but lately I feel like I'm watching the machinery in operation to bring about a one world religion with the Pope at its head, whereas previously I just figured it would all come together somehow or other.

What we thought were solid trustworthy Protestant organizations have shown themselves to be soft on Rome. Billy Graham used to seem like one of the most solid evangelicals, but it became apparent years ago that he's been feeding people who convert in his crusades back into the Roman Church if they identify that as their church, directly consigning them to Hell. Then there's Pat Robertson. It's not that I'm a great fan of his but he's a prominent evangelical, and I recently heard a snippet of a program of his in which he claims that the Catholic Church is a Christian Church.

He's also a Mason, and that's another line of influence on the church and the world that I've been learning a lot about recently.

Maybe the most startling revelation for me recently was that George Washington was not only a high-degree Mason -- it's not that I didn't already know that but I've learned a lot more about implications of that fact -- but converted to Catholicism hours before he died.

Then there is this recent revelation that Wycliffe Bible Translators, which works all around the world bringing the gospel to unreached peoples by giving them a Bible in their own language, has been changing the wording of key theological tenets of the Bible in order to make it more acceptable to Muslims. Not "Son of God" for instance because Muslims always think in carnal terms about that. Well, of course, so does EVERYBODY who doesn't believe the word of God. The virgin birth was one of the main objections of the American founders, as it is for oh lots and lots of Bible rejectors today as well, figuring in most debates with the big name atheists for instance. The Mormons simply blasphemously embrace the carnal notion of God being a man who physically impregnated Mary. So there's no excuse for changing the wording, it only falsifies the gospel message and in doing that they deprive the Muslims of the true gospel, the gospel that people down the centuries have been willing to die for, the gospel that would actually save them. This way the Muslims can consider themselves to be "followers of Isa," their false version of Jesus, and continue in their Muslim rituals, and not put themselves in a compromised position within their Muslim community. By doing this, the once-venerable missionary organization is now making the sort of soft converts to a lifeless "Christianity" that would easily put themselves under Rome. That hasn't been suggested in anything I've heard so far, it simply hits me as a likely development as so many other political and religious streams are flowing in that direction these days.

Then there is our President Obama with his leftist and Muslim affiliations, and most of all his lack of a verifiable claim to be qualified for his office, the latest indication in that direction coming through a mailman from twenty years ago who recognized him as the "black foreign student" the Ayers family were putting through school, who also told him that he was one day going to be President of the United States. He also ran for office with a chorus of messianic type adoration behind him (which I blogged on at Faith's Corner). Doesn't scripture say the Antichrist will come to power by "intrigue?"

And then there are all the secret societies I couldn't take terribly seriously until Chris Pinto's films put enough historical fact to their existence and their nefarious plots to convince me. The Masons first of all, the Illuminati -- oh you can just name the usual suspects, they're all there and all working in cahoots to bring the world under a "benevolent" dictator or one world political system and a universal religion. The Jesuits are a secret society too.

Oh and check out the "Georgia Guidestones" if you want to see the plan spelled out in so many words. Number one suggests a lot of bloodshed.

And then there are the warnings of a possible imminent disaster in the US I also recently blogged on. And the Middle East situation COULD soon turn into World War III which is also on the agenda.

We're almost eleven years from 9/11 and I'm not up on God's timetable for His judgments against a nation or at least against America, but the only way we could escape would be with a massive movement of repentance by the churches and that isn't happening.

Come soon, Lord Jesus.

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* According to an ancient prophecy by "Malachy" the last Pope is to be the very next one, after the current Benedict, and he's to be called "Peter the Roman" (which I blogged on some time back at Faith's Corner). Such a prophecy doesn't have to be taken seriously, of course, but it's interesting to consider that there might be truth to it, and the timing is certainly right for the emergence of the Antichrist, which makes this Peter the Roman a fine candidate for the role. I understand that the Catholic Church has been trying to spin this prophecy to claim that this Peter the Roman may well be the Antichrist but that in that case he'd have become Pope through the machinations of anti-Catholic Masons. However, the prophecy itself makes Peter out to be a hero who will suffer great persecution, and Malachy was a good Catholic himself.

"Replacement theology," Israel and the Antichrist

Listening this morning to a talk at a conference in Israel, a conference of mostly pro-Palestinian / anti-Israel Christian leftists, in which this talk was apparently the only one from the opposing point of view.

Apparently the leftist Christian position is based on what is called "replacement theology," the idea that the church has replaced Israel, from which theology the leftists get their hatred of Israel, their arguments that Israel is an apartheid state mistreating the Palestinian people who are the true heirs of the land and so on and so forth.

I don't see the connection. The leftist position, Christian or non-Christian, is just obviously wrong historically and ethically quite apart from whatever theology they appeal to.

There never was any Palestinian people, that is an invention of the haters of Israel. The settling of what eventually became the Jewish state began back in the 19th century when the area known as Palestine had no national identity whatever and no population indigenous to it. Mark Twain visited it and described it as a desolate wasteland. There were a few scattered Arabs and there were also some Jews, mostly in Jerusalem, who had been there from time immemorial. If occupation of the land at that time has any bearing on the argument the Jews have a better claim to it than the Arabs.

The Jews who moved into the area from Europe set about building up this desolate wasteland. What became known as the Palestinian people were Arabs from many of the surrounding Arab nations who came to work for the Jews in this building up. As the Jews succeeded in making the area livable they became the targets of growing hostility from the neighboring Arab nations. When these nations declared war on Israel just as it became a state they simultaneously warned the Arabs living there to escape for their own protection. They did escape and they became the refugees that were ultimately renamed "Palestinians." A whole bogus supposed history was bestowed to make them appear to be the legitimate heirs of the land that had become the Israeli state, and I have the impression that some of them even believe their own lie. Their own Arab people would not absorb them but left them as refugees in order to be a thorn in the side of Israel. Attempts to resolve the situation keep failing because the "Palestinians" have always refused whatever concessions Israel has made to their demands for a state. The reason they refuse is that they hate Israel, period, and want Israel gone, period.

I've written about this more in other posts. The point is that the leftists are motivated by hated of Israel and have no legitimate basis for their hatred and their support of this bogus "Palestinian people." What they call apartheid tactics against the Palestinians, such as a wall that keeps them out except at certain guarded checkpoints, are nothing but attempts by Israel to defend themselves from repeated attacks by the "Palestinians," rockets they fire daily into Israel among other acts of hostility. The whole Palestinian / Leftist claim is a big fat lie. Yet somehow they've managed to make most of the world believe it.

But what does any of this have to do with "replacement theology?" Those who argue against this theology, as the speaker does I've been listening to this morning, emphasize the idea that God's covenant with Israel is still in force because it was everlasting, and it's a covenant that entitles them to the land as well as a covenant to make them the people who will bless the whole world as carriers of the word of the true God and His Messiah.

I have to admit that I don't have a thorough understanding of the scriptures in this situation, but from what I think I understand about it I'm not on either side theologically. I could change my mind but for now it goes like this: I do not believe the church has "replaced" Israel, but I do believe the church is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant God made with Israel. We ARE the "new Israel" through the Messiah, the people of God. The Messiah Himself is the fulfiller of the covenants, He is the blessing to the Gentiles God wanted Israel to be. All that is fulfilled. The land promised to Israel is the "other country" Abraham and others looked to according to Hebrews 11, not an earthly land.

This does NOT mean that God doesn't still have a role for Israel the literal physical land. At the very least we know that scripture promises a huge conversion of Jews to Jesus Christ at the very end of time. But beyond that, it is utterly impossible that the Jews could be on the land and it not be God's will, even though they are still not IN God's will themselves. That physical land is clearly going to be the center of the end times scenario that is probably going to play out very soon. It's most likely going to involve a huge war, a bloodbath, out of which will emerge, if he doesn't preside over it from the beginning, a personage known as the Antichrist who will have the worldwide rule that was coveted by the earlier antichrists such as Hitler.

I don't know what to make of the various theologies that give separate roles to the Jews and the Church. I don't see scripture for that myself. I see scripture saying we are one people, Jew and Gentile, we are all the Church and we are all Israel.

And yet it does seem to be that God may have separate dealings with his original chosen people as these end times unfold. I get this probably more from the current world situation and history than from scripture, though I'm sure there is scripture for it, I'm just not adept at exegeting it.

The leftist position is evil, period. Israel is in the defensive position, not the aggressor position. All this is simply setting the stage for the grand finale showdown between Satan and Christ. It's not going to be fun, there will no doubt be millions of martyrs, but the end result will be the worldwide rule of Christ.

No doubt there are plenty of specifics that I'm overlooking, though I think my position is general enough that they won't contradict anything I've said. I could be wrong.

"Replacement theology" is skewed, there is no replacement but there is fulfillment in the Church, which includes both Jew and Gentile. But nothing in this way of looking at it denies the right of Israel to exist, or that the Jews are still God's people in a historical sense, and it certainly doesn't justify the lying claims for this bogus "Palestinian people" which is just an invention of Satan in his neverending quest to destroy God's people and plans. The leftist "Christians" are just going to be part of the Antichrist's worldwide religion in the end.

Coming Soon to a Planet Near You

When the Antichrist comes will he be like the traditional Maitreya, the messiah expected by the Buddhists, who looks like an Asian with kinky African hair?* Or more like a Middle Eastern man as one would expect of the Imam Mahdi, the messiah figure expected by the Muslims and heralded by Ahmadinejad? Which is also what Benjamin Creme's long-heralded Maitreya more or less looks like, as well as a familiar false image of Christ.

Whatever, he's got to be just about to appear. I suppose he'll mostly be known by his occult powers rather than his looks, but his looks must figure in there somewhere.

==============

*The feature of kinky hair plus black skin, which is also a characteristic of many painted Maitreya images, links him to Krishna (which means "black") and most particularly links him all the way back to Nimrod, son of Cush, who was identified by Alexander Hislop in his Two Babylons as the first Antichrist and the type of all the gods of the world since then. Hislop brings it all down to the Roman Catholic Church as the channel for all the old pagan religions, Mystery Babylon. The "Virgin Mary" demon (who has appeared all over the world this last century) is his candidate for The Beast. And the Protestant Reformers identifed the papacy as the Antichrist system. So we have no shortage of sources for the final evil leader of the world, Satan's masterpiece. Whoever it is will no doubt have to be able to unite all the various messiah expectations under one banner somehow or other.

Some of my old posts at Faith's Corner on this general theme are here.

End Times themes on internet radio

I've been listening more often lately to Brannon Howse's Worldview Weekend radio broadcasts, and found this recent interesting series:

...20 similarities between the false church in Nazi Germany that laid the foundation for the acceptance of Hitler and the rising global false church that will lay the foundation for the acceptance of the antichrist.

Howse is a sharp defender of the true gospel against the growing apostasies that have been infecting the churches, including today's tendency for American conservatives to choose political goals over gospel goals, and including the influences of the cults, the Roman church, Mormonism, etc.

He's certainly not the only one sounding the trumpet but for some reason he's been attracting what seems like an unusual amount of hostility. All I can say is good for him.

Another good one on similar subjects is Chris Pinto's Noise of Thunder radio program.

Another is Jan Markell's Understanding the Times broadcasts.

Open Letter to Evangelicals again: The State of Israel in the end times

An Open Letter to Evangelicals and Other Interested Parties:
The People of God, the Land of Israel, and the Impartiality of the Gospel.

This came up in conversation again recently, so although I already did a two-part blog on it last year I would like to try to say it again more briefly. This Open Letter aims to answer a statement from some evangelical leaders urging American support of Israel on the basis of scripture. According to the Open Letter, apparently some are teaching that

God's alleged favor toward Israel today is based upon ethnic descent rather than upon the grace of Christ alone, as proclaimed in the Gospel.

and others are teaching

that the Bible's promises concerning the land are fulfilled in a special political region or "Holy Land," perpetually set apart by God for one ethnic group alone.

And this is what the Open Letter seeks to answer.

The Open Letter goes on to present the Gospel of salvation as universal in answer to claims for any ethnic group. There is only one way of salvation for all.

4. Jesus Christ, who is fully God and fully man, came into the world to save sinners. In his death upon the cross, Jesus was the Lamb of God taking away the sin of the world, of Jew and of Gentile alike. The death of Jesus forever fulfilled and eternally ended the sacrifices of the Jewish temple. All who would worship God, whether Jew or Gentile, must now come to him in spirit and truth through Jesus Christ alone. The worship of God is no longer identified with any specific earthly sanctuary. He receives worship only through Jesus Christ, the eternal and heavenly Temple ...

7. Jesus taught that his resurrection was the raising of the True Temple of Israel. He has replaced the priesthood, sacrifices, and sanctuary of Israel by fulfilling them in his own glorious priestly ministry and by offering, once and for all, his sacrifice for the world, that is, for both Jew and Gentile. Believers from all nations are now being built up through him into this Third Temple, the church that Jesus promised to build. ...

9. The entitlement of any one ethnic or religious group to territory in the Middle East called the "Holy Land" cannot be supported by Scripture. In fact, the land promises specific to Israel in the Old Testament were fulfilled under Joshua. The New Testament speaks clearly and prophetically about the destruction of the second temple in A.D. 70. No New Testament writer foresees a regathering of ethnic Israel in the land, as did the prophets of the Old Testament after the destruction of the first temple in 586 B.C. Moreover, the land promises of the Old Covenant are consistently and deliberately expanded in the New Testament to show the universal dominion of Jesus, who reigns from heaven upon the throne of David, inviting all the nations through the Gospel of Grace to partake of his universal and everlasting dominion.

The promised Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ has been inaugurated. Its advent marks the focal point of human history. This kingdom of the Messiah is continuing to realize its fullness as believing Jews and Gentiles are added to the community of the redeemed in every generation. The same kingdom will be manifested in its final and eternal form with the return of Christ the King in all his glory. ...

The present secular state of Israel, however, is not an authentic or prophetic realization of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ.

I agree, and to the extent that some see the gospel as coming to fruition through the state of Israel I disagree with them. On the other hand, while Israel is not a fulfillment of Messianic prophecy it does look like a fulfillment of some literal prophecies about the flowering of that land again, the return of the Jews to that land at the end and so on.

While the state of Israel does not fulfill MESSIANIC prophecy (except as the final stage before Jesus' second advent) I can see it as a fulfillment of prophecy of the playing out of the claims of fallen human nature under the Antichrist just before the return of Jesus. Religious Jews are still expecting their Messiah, blinded to the fact that they rejected the true Messiah 2000 years ago, and who would that be but the Antichrist?

I do see God behind all this, however. I've found some speculation on the web that Satan is behind it. That can't be so -- his part seems to be mostly against Israel. There have been miraculous events protecting Israel from its Arab enemies and that has to be God. Those who deny that Israel has a right to be on the land also see the Palestinians as the victims of Israel, but I see it the other way around. Whatever Israel's rights to the land from a biblical perspective, they acquired it fairly and the land was pretty much barren when they started the process -- see Mark Twain's description of the area as a wilderness when he was there in the 19th century. The Palestinian people did not exist at that time, there was no people with that name at all and the current "Palestinians" are not of one tribe but from many different Arab backgrounds. They were Arabs from the surrounding nations who came to work for the Israelis in building up the land, who left Israel in a mass exodus before one of the Arab attacks on Israel, having been warned of the attack BY the Arabs. They became a refugee camp that then took on the false identity of a Palestinian nation. Meanwhile Israel absorbed many Jewish refugees from those same Arab lands. The Arab nations should have absorbed back the Arab refugees but they found it more useful to leave them there with the implication that their sufferings were all the fault of Israel.

The prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 found a literal fulfillment in a historically documented period of 69 times 7 years from a specific point in history to the revelation of Jesus Christ as King as He rode into Jerusalem on the donkey. The prophecy was literal and was exactly and literally fulfilled in the first advent of the Messiah. There is a "seventieth week" left in that prophecy that has not yet been fulfilled and must also be fulfilled in the same literal historical way the first 69 "weeks" were fulfilled. This is a last "week of years" or seven years that it seems to me can't just be palmed off with an allegorical interpretation but must be a literal time yet to come. There are many indications that this is to be a time in which not Christ but the usurper, Christ's imitator the Antichrist, possessed by the devil, will take the reins of world government in Christ's name, at the end of which time the true King will return. Some Jews will receive this fake as their Messiah. For this purpose a reinstated temple in Jerusalem would make perfect sense.

The complaints of the Open Letter that those who are looking to a literal physical Israel are misrepresenting the gospel of Christ may be true of many, and of course if so they are wrong -- literal physical Israel isn't really about the gospel, it's about the playing out of the end times drama of pure evil as all the powers of the devil and fallen human nature come together to rule the world, bringing the whole fallen creation to its fullest possible expression and final defeat. Not all prophecies are Messianic prophecies. The four empires prophesied by Daniel embody the doings of fallen humanity, and the Messiah comes into it only as He is prophesied to overthrow the fourth and last empire and usher in the Kingdom that will last forever. We are now living in the dispensation in which Christ has come and yet the fallen world continues alongside. It makes sense to me to think that the fallen world has yet to come to its own "perfection" as it were -- a "perfection" of error and evil -- before the Lord returns for good.

Israel is STILL the geographic location where God chose to place His name. It's still a type, it's not the gospel, but this earth hasn't yet fled away and while it's here that piece of geography is still where God put His name. For it to function as a magnet for all the forces of evil to come together at the very end to try to defeat God makes perfect sense. Yes, the gospel is fulfilled in the HEAVENLY Jerusalem not the earthly Jerusalem but we are still living on this planet and this planet is where the Antichrist is going to appear and rule, and the Mount of Olives is literally where the Lord Jesus is going to appear Himself as well, at the very end when he returns to take possession of His people and His entire creation.

So I'm claiming that there is still a history to be played out in the original land given to the Jews by God, although all that is now fulfilled in Christ. Scripture apparently prophesies that the Israelis will suffer terribly in that land before the final day, but that God will be their ultimate protector and defender, even fighting for them against their enemies, and that a great number of them will finally be saved.

The purpose of this is not so much about the gospel as it is about God's ownership of Planet Earth. God has always had the purpose to save through the gospel a people for Himself, but He has also always had this other purpose as well -- to demonstrate His glory and His reign over the earth to ALL people, in fact to the entire Creation in heaven and in earth. EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW to the King of Kings when He comes to claim His possession, EVERY KNEE, not just the knees of believers. The unsaved, the unregenerate, the damned and the doomed and every other living thing will bow to the true King of Creation in the end, and ALL will see Him with their physical eyes when He returns.

Evil must have its day and then the wicked will be shown their error as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords returns to claim His inheritance, His believing people but also the physical world He created.

Furthermore, a day should not be anticipated in which Christ's kingdom will manifest Jewish distinctives, whether by its location in "the land," by its constituency, or by its ceremonial institutions and practices.

However, there do seem to be prophecies about these very distinctives, but the mistake, it seems to me, is to think of any of this as manifesting CHRIST'S KINGDOM. Rather it will be the manifestation of ANTICHRIST's kingdom. The Book of Revelation calls Jerusalem Sodom after all.

Instead, this present age will come to a climactic conclusion with the arrival of the final, eternal phase of the kingdom of the Messiah. At that time, all eyes, even of those who pierced him, will see the King in his glory. Every knee will bow, and every tongue will declare that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. The kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever.

Quite. But HOW things are going to arrive at this point looks to me like it's going to include physical Israel -- apostate Israel, yes, but an Israel in which multitudes of Jews will come to see the truth and be saved even out of the most horrifying tribulation. And THEN will come the "climactic conclusion with the arrival of the final, eternal phase of the kingdom of the Messiah."

I could be wrong about this -- and probably am wrong about SOME of it in any case -- but I'm more and more committed to something along these lines. I think BOTH sides of this argument are partly right and partly wrong. There is a both/and here. To the extent that the pro-Israel evangelicals confuse God's purposes in Israel with His purposes in the gospel they are wrong or at least have the cart before the horse, but they have something right in their reading of prophecy nevertheless, which the Reformed camp behind the Open Letter is overlooking.

Surveillance and Control of the Internet Next Phase of Antichrist Government?

This Phase of Antichrist Government getting underway as reported by Jan Markell:

We all know we are heading into a full-blown surveillance society. The U.K. probably heads the world in this effort, but the U.S. is nipping at its heels. The Obama administration is assuring that.

Newsmax online is reporting the fact that Obama is eyeing the Internet to ID all Americans. This was preceded by the Net Neutrality Act which was the first phase of the government monitoring the Internet. White House Cybersecurity Coordinator Howard Schmidt says, "This is the perfect spot in the U.S. government to centralize efforts toward creating an 'identity ecosystem' for the Internet." Privacy groups are alerting that this is an absolute infringement on Americans' rights. The Department of Homeland Security will also help implement this.

Keep in mind the power of the Internet and computer technology. The Stuxnet computer worm was reportedly more effective in setting back Iran's nuclear plans a couple years than anything else, including an air strike. Stuxnet's complexity has stunned the computer security industry. It was certainly affiliated with a government -- likely Israel, possibly with U.S. help. The worm had Iran's name on it and specifically their nuclear computers. Why have we not heard more about this? It may be the technological story of 2010. But is Stuxnet an argument for a supra-national government body to regulate cyberspace?

The Obama administration has back-up support from a U.N. office in Geneva where officials from 18 countries voted to staff a working group on the future of something called Internet Governance Forum. Since it's the U.N., there is already reason to be concerned. The plan was supported by China and, not without surprise, Iran. So, it has global impact, not just Obama impact.

For good or bad, technology is taking center stage. It has for 25 years or more. Time magazine's man of the year is Mark Zuckerberg, creator of Facebook. This communication tool has taken the world by storm. Zuckerberg is worth about $50 billion as a result of a device that helps people communicate with one another. People are eager to make friends even if some of them could be suspect. It helps them feel connected and not isolated, something essential in our 21st century impersonal world.

Enter Antichrist. Is he waiting in the wings? Perhaps. Technology will drive the final generation. In a sense, it already is. Everything in Revelation 13 depends on technology: The electronic money system, electronic control of the media, electronic control of commerce and even electronic control of the one-world religion. When "Mr. Fix-it" enters the scene, the technology infrastructure must be in place. His empire is limited -- seven years.

UFOs, False Christs, discrediting Biblical Christianity, setting the stage for some kind of End Times Extravaganza

Again, the link to the 10-2 message mostly on UFOs from Heidi Swandell at Olive Tree Views.

And again the link to the 10-2 radio broadcast also on UFOs hosted by Brannon Howse though Olive Tree Views .

And here's Scott Johnson's PDF to his 10-3 teachings which also cover UFOs among other things.

Lotta stuff on UFOs this week, along with quite a bit on False Christs, which makes sense because the most likely purpose of the UFO demonic deception is to usher in the Antichrist. Could the Antichrist be nonhuman? Well, one major candidate is Maitreya who has claims to supernatural credentials of some sort. He's been more or less underwritten by the U.N. although that fact is played down these days. His website, run by his channeler Benjamin Creme is Share International.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

(Does Antichrist get revealed before or after the Rapture? But that's another post.)

It ought to be recognized as a sign unto itself that False Christs love to talk in strange pompous religious language. It seems that anyone who is familiar with the straightforward authoritative style of Jesus Christ surely couldn't be deceived by these imposters if only for that reason alone, but apparently it happens. Many who aren't very Biblically knowledgeable certainly are already deceived by fake Christs, as evidenced by the followings of such doctrines of demons as A Course in Miracles, which Oprah Winfrey so strongly promoted a couple years ago, along with another "spiritual" leader whose name I forget, and other demon-imparted drivel such as the Seth Books which were also popular a few decades ago, and the Urantia cult, and now there's the Raelian cult, and might as well point out that the same method of impartation by angels demons was also the basis for the Book of Mormon and the Koran. I'm sure there are dozens more I'm leaving out. They all talk with this artificial bloated pseudospiritual wordiness, and an elitist snobbery that puts down "the ignorant masses" and that sort of thing (see example below), and they ALL try to discredit -- guess what? -- true Biblical Christianity. Imagine that. It's getting so the greatest testimony to the Truth is from its enemies -- if you have ears to hear, that is.

I got the following example of the vaporings of such a false Christ from Scott Johnson's PDF to his 10-3-10 teaching. He discusses it in Part 2 out of five parts.

It's a classic. This demon pretender puts himself above Christ by claiming to be Christ, preaches false doctrine, attacks the apostle Paul (what a glory to Paul that he is so frequently attacked by falsifiers), AND, interestingly, attacks -- all Bibles, but specifically the KING JAMES BIBLE (the "authorized" version.) Now, isn't that something to ponder? I point you to my blog The Great Bible Hoax for more, but you'll also find teachings on the KJV at Scott Johnson's site and at links I've listed at my blog.

(More Lies From Ascended Master Esu Immanuel Sananda AKA “Master Jesus”)

Greetings, precious little Druthea. I AM Sananda. I come in the service of Holy Creator Source, the ONE labeled GOD of Light. I AM the One Who walked your place some 2000 years past in your counting. I was human, as are you ones who now walk this place and journey towards ONENESS with God.

I guess addressing this to a "Druthea" is supposed to mimic some of the epistles of the Bible perhaps? Hm. Holy Creator Source. Hm. "Labeled" -- does that mean "falsely so-called?" Hm. But maybe there's a revelation of the truth here in that we know the devil comes as an "angel of light," and usurps the place of God whenever he can. And get that capitalized "I AM" he uses, the very Name of God claimed only by the God of the Bible and by Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

"who walked your place?" Odd language, what does that mean anyway? "In your counting." Aha, you're an alien, not of "our" system of things. But Jesus Christ never spoke in such a way. And you WERE human? Clever. People do seem to want to believe that Jesus wasn't what the Bible says He is. Let's make him an alien who just pretended to be what the Bible says He is. Oh, and there's your false theology too, that we're all just a-journeying to oneness with God, no rules to be judged by, no punishment for sin to worry about, just a journey. Well, Shirley MacLaine seems to have fallen for it.

I was known by many labels and most will recognize Me by the term Jesus Christ. Much of what you do read in your various editions of the so-called Holy Bible are the misperceptions of the one Pharisee born as Saul of Tarsus and who changed his name to Paul.

Always they demote Jesus Christ one way or another, usually by making him part -- a lesser part -- of a pantheon of enlightened ones. Here he's just one persona of this entity, and SO misunderstood too. Then there's the "so-called" Holy Bible. Yes, let's impugn its claim to that title right off the bat. Get them in a mood to doubt it. And there's that attack on Paul, no better evidence for his righteous authority than a demon impersonator of Christ debunk him for his "misperceptions." The sad thing is that ANYBODY could believe these droolings of Satan, but they do, they do.

Alas, My mission and My purpose for coming to your place in behalf of Our heavenly Father was not only misunderstood by true seekers of truth, but was also purposely altered to serve the needs of the religious zealots who "lead" the ignorant masses through fear and damnation.

This is SO not the personality of Jesus Christ, it's disgusting to think anyone could believe any of it. Oh those "ignorant masses," oh we wouldn't want to be one of THEM now would we? No, we are enlightened seekers of truth. No fear and damnation for us, that's just for the "ignorant" ones, not us superior ones, just happy happy journeys to oneness with God.

For you ones who work closely with The HOSTS of God who assist you at this time of great transition, please KNOW that I experienced the wrath and malicious actions by those who were threatened by the messages of Our Holy Father which I brought to the people.

Kind of a hint there of a horde of demonic "helpers" or "spirit guides" so many New Agers have put themselves in bondage to, "hosts of God" my foot. "Our Holy Father" can only be Satan himself whom Jesus called "the father of lies"

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And of course, always those who reject lies are characterized as malicious and "threatened" by their bogus "truth" instead. It's a formula that has been tried and apparently works to discredit true believers.

The adversary was nipping at my heals CONSTANTLY, chelas, as many of you are now experiencing as well. Paul, alias Saul of Tarsus, was NO apostle of Mine. HE elected himself authority to interpret My message and it was HE who taught the misteachings of salvation and put ME, Immanuel, ABOVE you, once calling Me the only Son of God to save you from your sins. THESE WERE NOT MY TEACHINGS, EVER, and in fact, if you study the first books which are included in most versions of the Christian Bibles (Mark, Matthew, Luke and John), there remains a REMNANT of the messages which I brought which do often contradict Paul's interpretations. Even still, those four books do not include many things I taught and were actually put to print between 70 and 200 years A.D.! And this is by calculation of YOUR own historical theologians.

"Chelas," hm, a term of endearment to his followers I guess. Something to make them feel special and different and elite and enlightened. Might be interesting to know the translation, if it has one. The whole paragraph is of course just a collection of familiar lies about the Bible to discredit it. It is the word of God, mustn't let THAT be known, must make it out to be the invention of evil men instead, must claim Jesus contradicts Paul etc. etc. etc.

And so on he goes attacking the Bible and its believers and offering a New Age version of God and religion:

So, precious chelas, you must ask yourselves, WHO decided what would be included in each "authorized" version of the Bible? I can assure you GOD was seldom present in those authorizations and decisions. Paul, the self-ordained apostle, corrupted my message and deceived MILLIONS of ignorant seekers over the centuries. I would venture to say he did his job well. For so many of you are transfixed in an illusion of dogma and human power, and the price has been YOUR SOUL.

We of THE HOSTS of GOD are come again to you ones WHO will hear the clarion call of TRUTH, for so many of you are weary of being lied to and used. So many are trapped and you are kept there by the adversary of fear. We come to shake you awake that you may find GOD within you and FREEDOM which only His Holy Presence, acknowledged and accepted, will bring you!

It is time to think for yourselves, for GOD gave you all that you are and you have mostly denied HIM and self. We are giving you a ticket to free your soul from the bondage of false human dogma and ritual which leaves you unfulfilled.

Does this mean I say to question your "beliefs" as you now hold them? YES. If you live a righteous and moral life putting others before self and seeking to give in more ways, then you can label yourself and atheist, Christian, Aborigine, Buddhist, or Muslim and it makes no difference whatsoever.

SOURCE:: The Phoenix Liberator, November 10, 1992, Volume 21, Number 4.
http://www.phoenixarchives.com/liberator/1992/1192/111092.pdf
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Right. Religion to the cults is just being-a-good-person. They have to deny in one form or another that we're all born sinners, since the Fall of the human race when our first parents disobeyed God and brought death into the world, putting all their descendants under the rule of Satan. They have to deny the reality of Hell although all cultures have affirmed the reality of some such place of punishment after death, where those who reject God and His Law end up. They deny that there is any sort of punishment for disobeying God, so they can deny our need of a perfectly righteous Savior, the merciful God Himself who came in human flesh to die for us, to take our own deserved punishment in our place. Their whole plan is to keep as many as possible from knowing the true way to God and the costly salvation He bought for us.

I also found the following from this same creepy entity elsewhere online:

I AM Sananda. I come in service to our Holy Father of LIGHT, God/Aton and to you, my brethren. Greetings little sister Druthea. Druthea has asked Our Father to please bring understanding and clarification on what is THE CREATION. Our Father God/Aton of Light has sent me to answer this challenge.

Hoo, let me guess, the Creation isn't anything like what is found in Genesis 1.

I call this a challenge because your language of communication has not the "words" for describing this concept of Creation. So in order to put upon you, my precious chela, MORE limitation, I will ask that you close your eyes, call forth THE GREAT SPIRIT OF ONE WITHIN YOU, "listen" and continue reading with The Presence of The Holy Divine ONE WITHIN.

Lemme see, translation: only if you get yourself good and demon-possessed can you poor inferior mortals begin to comprehend our superior language for our superior concepts.

Now imagine a GREAT CIRCLE OF INFINITY with no ending and no beginning in front of you. This will "represent" The Creation. Now image that this circle is a great movie film without ending and without beginning, but moving ever creatively on, constantly unfolding the unlimited potential of the creative "will". What we will do now is PAUSE a frame in the sequence of this ongoing "film" of no-time and no-space, no-ending and no-beginning...

The Creation represents fulfilled and yet unfulfilled Creative Potential. Creation is the Totality of ALL THAT IS, which in your human perspective is ALL THAT HAS BEEN and ALL THAT IS TO BE. Now, keep in mind, the Laws of Balance, of Nature, of God and of The Creation are THE SAME Universal Laws of Order and Logic.

Huh? Well, obviously my inferior "human perspective," my merely mortal intellect, just isn't up to processing this sort of gobbledygook sophisticated revelation. but it appears at least that he's claiming that God is part of Nature rather than outside it as its Creator as the Bible teaches.

So then HOW is the Creative Potential REALIZED and FULFILLED? Through the Great Spiritually Perfected Being, God/Aton, who is Great MIND and INTELLIGENCE which brings THE POTENTIAL of that which represents The Creation into coalescence of matter, such as planets, stars, animals, plants and minerals. Now, you have ONE GREAT SPIRITUALLY PERFECTED BEING which is THE MIND INTELLIGENCE OF YOUR GALAXY...that ONE which we call OUR FATHER/MOTHER CREATOR GOD/ATON. The reason that WE are ONE with, and therefore, called the "children" of God/Aton is that this Great Being has FRAGMENTED Himself, His Great Spirit, to allow HIS UNFOLDING CREATIVE POTENTIAL UNLIMITED varieties of experience. Thus each human, each Angel, each BEING which is created and fragmented of HIM, is a unique creative-potential filled reflection of aspect of THE ONE GREAT MIND INTELLIGENCE, GOD/ATON.

I see, God is one with everything and we're all part of God. The Hinduistic idea basically, the New Age God. Certainly not the God of the Bible. And as if it weren't clear enough already he goes on to emphasize that "God" is a part of the Creation and "we" are a part of God. I'm not sure where the name Aton comes from, which of the satanic false religions.

So, we have The Creation, which represents the Great Sacred Circle of Infinity, without end or beginning, which holds the fulfilled and unfulfilled Creative Potential of the Totality of ALL that is. Then we have God/Aton, which represents the MIND INTELLIGENCE OF THE CREATION FOR THIS GALAXY. God/Aton is as much a PART of The Creation as WE EACH are a PART of God/Aton. Hence the truth...WE ARE ALL ONE.

But we have to ACHIEVE this oneness somehow or other:

I, Sananda, have now reached my state of ONENESS with Our Father, which is the meaning of my name, "One With God". What does this mean to you, my brethren? This means that I am in the state of My Father, God/Aton's will. I am sent now, along with His Hosts of Light, of Our Father to reclaim YOU of his fragments who choose to move into higher realms of Creative Spiritual Awareness. Eventually, many of YOU ones will EARN, as have I, the state of Grace, of Oneness with Our Father of Light/Life Aton. I, and my Brothers of Light come to show the WAY toward ONENESS, which is the Love, the Peace, the Balance, and the Harmony of THE TOTALITY OF ALL THAT IS, THE CREATION. Why come we? Because we, the Hosts of God of Light, LOVE you as our brothers who are also precious beings created of Our Father. Since my will is HIS WILL, it is HIS WILL to bring you HOME and I am come to show you the way.

Oh how exciting. They LOVE us, they come to HELP us realize our true nature. I hate to think how many can be sucked into this kind of delusion. (And a side note, what's with this odd phrasing "you ones?" and the strange form "why come we?" Posturing of some sort, pompous language.)

Now what does it mean to be "Sananda", One With God? Much Responsibility, chelas! Only it is quite a JOYFUL responsibility in that I am AWARE of my Co-Creation with Our Father. I recognize that even the word "responsibility" makes many of you a bit uncomfortable inside, mostly because it is a symbol of discipline, and seriousness and ones even perceive it as "limiting" to their perceived "enjoyment" of life. Eventually, precious ones, "responsibility" will not pose a "threat" to you because you will have developed the INTEGRITY of YOUR SPIRIT WITHIN to the point that you will WELCOME the creative challenges of SELF-Responsibility.

Interesting. Mustn't come down too hard on this responsibility thing, might lose our audience, they feel "threatened" by such burdens on their blithe spirits. We've taught them not to tolerate the idea of Hell for a moment any more and responsibility is also just too much for the dears. Gotta make this FUN.

You see, since most of you (especially those of you who have believed various HUMAN doctrines in your "religious" institutions) have been "programmed" to be dependent and not take responsibility; and since you have also been programmed that you are somehow separate from your Creator, learning to take Personal Responsibility seems "unnatural" and "frightening" to you. WHY? Well, when you recognize the truth that YOU have created ALL within this manifested "illusion", it can be a bit overwhelming to your consciousness to realize that you have also contributed to the DIS-ease upon your plane and upon yourselves. There is NO ONE else to blame anymore.

There's a mouthful. I'm going to have to come back and try to unpack this later.

Personal Responsibility means taking action to balance the unbalance, to bring love where there is hatred, to bring harmony where there is chaos, to bring discipline where there is disorder and to bring peace where there is war. Each ONE of you will open your own door to the SPIRITUAL POWER OF LOVE WITHIN YOU WHEN you start taking Responsibility for ALL of your manifested reality, including your thoughts, words and deeds. Each ONE who harmonizes and balances within brings the LIGHT of Balance and Harmony to your "pool" of mass consciousness, so that it eventually will no longer be the "cesspool" of darkness and despair which it is now.

Ah well, our subject is The Creation and ITS relationship to God/Aton and to YOU. Please recognize, please remember, my precious ones, YOU each represent WITHIN YOU GOD/ATON'S MIND INTELLIGENCE for UNLIMITED SPIRITUAL CREATIVE POTENTIAL. THERE IS SO MUCH JOY TO BE A PART OF. LET GO of your ILLUSIONS of separation from THE ONE and attachment to the "physical" and "emotional" aspects of this LIMITED plane. BE responsible for what is YOUR JOB of clean-up before you, SPREAD THE WORD OF TRUTH written in The Journals about your Earthly circumstances and spread the JOY that GOD WINS in this final confrontation with evil. Will you JOIN GOD, MINESELF and MINE Brothers of LIGHT in this confrontation of evil? OR, will you remain ignorant and apathetic, and therefore, a PART OF THE EVIL ENERGY DESTRUCTIVE "WILL" upon this plane? In Love and Peace, I humbly request that YOU take MINE hand to the path of GOD and ONENESS...the ONLY logical choice is the choice of GOD'S WILL, and MAY GOD'S WILL BE DONE! So Be It.

I AM Sananda, One With God, in service to HIS HOLY PRESENCE, ATON and THE CREATION. Peace be with you. Salu.

More to say about this when I'm up to it.

Considering the Amillennial View: The Temple of 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Trying to settle some things in my mind about what the Bible says about the end times, I've been listening to some lectures on Amillennialism by Dr. Kim Riddlebarger (down right hand margin), to see if I think their interpretation of various passages is better than that of the Dispensationalists, who preach the pre-trib Rapture. I finally listened enough to have a fairly decent idea of what they believe, so I want to sketch out my response.

I want to start with 2 Thessalonians 2:4 in which the "temple" is interpreted by Dispensationalists to be a physical temple in Jerusalem and by the Amillennialists as the Church:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Amillennialist argument is that the "temple" refers to Christians because that's the only way Paul has used the word elsewhere, so that anyone who disagrees would have to prove that he's departed from his usual use of the word for this one verse.

In principle I don't have a problem with the temple-as-the-church idea because Paul has shown many times in his New Testament writings that Christians are the true Temple of God. Also, Dr. Riddlebarger at one point made it clear that there is historical support for this interpretation: The Protestant Reformers regarded the temple in this verse as the church because they believed the papacy was the seat of the Antichrist. I found that Matthew Henry's Commentary shares this understanding. (I have to assume they still regarded the Roman Church as including enough true Christians to justify seeing the Pope as sitting within the Church of God).

But I end up disagreeing with him, and I'll sketch out my reasons:

1. "... he as God sitteth in the temple of God... This doesn't read like it could possibly be a metaphor rather than a literal reference to a building. I can't see Paul describing someone who arises out of the Church as "sitting in the temple of God." It's a very awkward and unnecessary way of talking that I can't impute to Paul.

The amillennialist answer is that "to sit" simply means "to rule" but that just seems to make it even more unlikely, as if Paul suddenly starts speaking in cryptic symbolic language when he has never done so before. He would TEACH such symbolism but he wouldn't just casually USE it. Can they show anywhere else that Paul ever uses such a metaphorical way of speaking? I can't think of one place myself. In the other passages where Paul refers to Christians as the Temple of God, he is teaching the people that they are the temple and what that means. But in 2 Thess 2:4 if the Amillennialists are right he would be using the word in a completely different way, using it to imply something he could have said much more directly, such as He will arise out of the Church to rule over the people of God, pretending to be God himself. [I've listed all the places Paul refers to a temple at the bottom of this post]

2. But now this begins to show another problem with this reading in that the true Church would never be the seat of a ruling Antichrist, he could only rule over an apostate church, and it's hard to see that Paul would call THAT church the Temple of God. This was pointed out in different contexts in commentaries I read.

3. Another point is that since the Jerusalem temple was still standing at that time, and Paul is writing to people who knew it was standing, he wouldn't just toss off such a cryptic use of the term and expect them to know that he was using it in the sense of the Church. Just because the Church is now the true Temple of God doesn't mean the physical temple has lost all meaning in everyone's mind. In 1 Cor 9:13 Paul does refer to the physical temple, to illustrate his point that workers for the gospel deserve to be supported by those they serve. So this is another reason why if he's going to use a phrase like "sit in the temple" to refer to the Church he'd have to make a clear distinction so as not to be misunderstood, and he doesn't do that. Also, Paul continued to participate in the temple functions himself although he knew the temple no longer represented God, and many believing Jews went on practicing their customs and rituals for many years, so although it is true that a rebuilt temple now would amount to blasphemy, there's no reason to think that it had yet that meaning in those days.

No, he wouldn't just toss out a phrase like "sit in the temple of God" and expect his audience to know he meant the Church. Therefore he didn't mean the Church.

So I disagree with the Amillennialists on this point, and agree with those who read this to refer to the physical temple in Jerusalem.

This of course does imply that if the Antichrist is yet future there will have to BE a temple in Jerusalem for him to sit in to show that he's God and right now there isn't one. But there have been plans for many years for it to be rebuilt. So I think if we believe God's word, and trust that His prophecies will all be realized in historical time, that this temple WILL be rebuilt at some point in the future and then it will be there for the Antichrist to sit in.

The objection that its rebuilding would be blasphemous is a rather odd objection, it seems to me, since we're talking about a time when evil is to be permitted to come to its perfect flowering, and when unbelieving Jews will be saved en masse out of the evil to the glory of God.

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All the scripture verses where Paul uses the word "temple:"

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Answering Reformed Objections to Evangelical Support of Israel

I ran across the link to this document on a Reformed Christian website, and besides its being provocative because my political persuasions about Israel are so much the opposite, it also looked like it would make a useful vehicle for exploring some of my objections to the theological position it represents.

An Open Letter to Evangelicals and Other Interested Parties:

The People of God, the Land of Israel, and the Impartiality of the Gospel

Recently a number of leaders in the Protestant community of the United States have urged the endorsement of far-reaching and unilateral political commitments to the people and land of Israel in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, citing Holy Scripture as the basis for those commitments. To strengthen their endorsement, several of these leaders have also insisted that they speak on behalf of the seventy million people who constitute the American evangelical community.

It is good and necessary for evangelical leaders to speak out on the great moral issues of our day in obedience to Christ's call for his disciples to be salt and light in the world. It is quite another thing, however, when leaders call for commitments that are based upon a serious misreading of Holy Scripture. In such instances, it is good and necessary for other evangelical leaders to speak out as well. We do so here in the hope that we may contribute to the cause of the Lord Christ, apart from whom there can never be true and lasting peace in the world.

At the heart of the political commitments in question are two fatally flawed propositions. First, some are teaching that God's alleged favor toward Israel today is based upon ethnic descent rather than upon the grace of Christ alone, as proclaimed in the Gospel.

Has this been stated somewhere in these terms? Perhaps in a document of this sort they can't specifically quote the position they're answering?

I haven't carefully followed this issue but this sounds like an extrapolation and not a fair representation of the position in question Perhaps there are some who see it as described. I suspect there are many different shades of theology involved among Protestants who support Israel with at least some degree of Biblical perspective on it. In a sense I don't support Israel because of my Biblical beliefs at all; I simply think they have a right to be where they are and they are the victims in the whole scenario.

But in terms of the Biblical framework, it is true that present-day Israelis think in terms of their ethnic claims to the reestablishment of Israel, which they see as given to them by God, while I see it as a different historical route to the grace of Christ for the Jews that picks up some unfinished Old Testament threads, not as a denial of the grace of Christ. When the prophecies are understood in the messianic context, this removes all the ethnic assumptions, but I believe they are nevertheless to have a literal earthly fulfillment as well. God's promises to bring them back to the land and cause the land to flower may certainly have a messianic fulfillment in Christ and His Church and the Kingdom of God, but that doesn't mean they won't also have a literal earthly fulfillment as well.

I have to admit, however, that much of my reasoning is based on the fact that Israel is there, that the wilderness has been flowering under their care, that against extreme odds they won some wars that were initiated against them by others, and that their neighbors and the world hate them with a passionate unjust hatred -- all signs that this is God's work.

God began His revelation of Himself on this dusty material planet, and it makes perfect sense that He would bring His final revelation of His glory -- to the entire human family as well as the heavenly creatures -- from the same geographic place He chose to set His name in the first place.

The Reformed or Amillennialist position insists that there are no unfinished Old Testament threads, that all have been fulfilled in Christ and the Church. I'm not sure that ALL the prophecies have been fulfilled. Certainly in Christ there is now no more Jew nor Gentile but we are all one in Christ; certainly the Church IS the true Israel of God -- and yet there does seem to be some unfinished business left for the physical land of Israel. OR, put it this way: Even if all the OT prophecies have been completely fulfilled in Christ, that doesn't prevent there being another level, if you will, to those same prophecies that is yet to have a literal physical temporal fulfillment.

And again, this would be quite in keeping with the fact that the whole Old Testament plays out in this real world after all, even if Israel and the temple and the land are all now fulfilled in Christ and His Church. That is, God may still have dealings with Israel on a temporal earthly level, with the ultimate goal of both judging this world AND bringing the last generation of Jews into His Church.

The angels told the disciples that Jesus is going to come back exactly the same way He left, in real time to a real physical planet, and I don't see a way to spiritualize the passage that describes His literal physical return to the Mount of Olives, which will then split from the impact. Since to the Reformed mindset Israel does not rightly belong where it is, it seems they have to imagine an uninhabitable wilderness with a few scattered farms and nomads, as Mark Twain witnessed Palestine in the 19th century, as the proper place for Christ's return.

Second, others are teaching that the Bible's promises concerning the land are fulfilled in a special political region or "Holy Land," perpetually set apart by God for one ethnic group alone. As a result of these false claims, large segments of the evangelical community, our fellow citizens, and our government are being misled with regard to the Bible's teachings regarding the people of God, the land of Israel, and the impartiality of the Gospel.

There is probably something to this criticism as I've heard this idea expressed by supporters of Israel, even to the denial of the need for Jews to be saved through Christ, but I think it's a minority view. If it's not, if much of how this document characterizes the supporters of Israel IS true, then I have to say I don't agree with THEM either.

However, again on the earthly physical level, the repopulation and revitalization of the land of Israel, PLUS their being surrounded by implacable enemies, certainly looks like fulfilled prophecy, at the very very least certainly HAS to be God's own work. I think these Reformed theologians are falling for a false either/or -- and perhaps there is some reason for this if their opponents are doing the same thing in the opposite direction.

In what follows, we make our convictions public. We do so acknowledging the genuine evangelical faith of many who will not agree with us. Knowing that we may incur their disfavor, we are nevertheless constrained by scripture and by conscience to publish the following propositions for the cause of Christ and truth.

1. The Gospel offers eternal life in heaven to Jews and Gentiles alike as a free gift in Jesus Christ. Eternal life in heaven is not earned or deserved, nor is it based upon ethnic descent or natural birth.

I must say I feel like saying to this, "So what else is new?" because it seems to be erecting a straw man of the evangelical defense of Israel. Again, MAYBE there are some (I've seen some who appear to tilt in that direction) who deny this fundamental gospel truth, but I doubt that's more than a slim minority, while everyone else would say "Of course, we know that."

2. All human beings, Jews and Gentiles alike, are sinners, and, as such, they are under God's judgment of death. Because God's standard is perfect obedience and all are sinners, it is impossible for anyone to gain temporal peace or eternal life by his own efforts. Moreover, apart from Christ, there is no special divine favor upon any member of any ethnic group; nor, apart from Christ, is there any divine promise of an earthly land or a heavenly inheritance to anyone, whether Jew or Gentile. To teach or imply otherwise is nothing less than to compromise the Gospel itself.

Perhaps they are answering a fringe segment, such as John Hagee and others who believe like him? I think they are a small minority among those who strongly support Israel's existence as fulfillment of prophecy.

Again, I don't know if my view of this is shared by many others or not, but I think this is a function of the two levels of prophetic fulfillment I suggest above. They don't contradict each other, they are parallel aspects of God's revelation. God's people ARE Christ's people, He is the way and no-one comes to the Father but by Him, so the Jews have to become Christ's people to be saved, but on the way there God is also dealing with all the peoples of earth.

Besides saving out a people for Himself He also has the objective of declaring His glory and His possession of the land -- the land is the whole earth as well as the spiritual or heavenly Canaan. His Israelites were His chosen instrument for that purpose and after all the promises have been fulfilled in Christ He might yet resume those dealings in the 70th week of Daniel, both to bring His rebellious people to Christ and to judge the world. Sure, I guess He could do this without temporal Israel, but it looks to many like He's chosen to do it with them. He'll probably teach some Christians a lesson in the process too.

Biblical logic is on our side. For instance, the Seventieth Week of Daniel is a major major sign that the Reformed camp seems to want to play down. The first 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy were fulfilled EXACTLY, so why would we expect the 70th to be fulfilled any less exactly? And since it remains unfinished to this day it must be yet future, and since the first 69 week marked off the last years of the Old Testament up to the revelation of Christ as King, it makes perfect sense that the last week could very well occur within a resumed Old Testament context and be marked by the revelation of the Antichrist, and this does seem to require a restoration of Old Testament trappings, Israel itself, the temple and so on, even if ultimately these things will have to be abandoned as the Reality of Christ and the heavenly Jerusalem is completed. It's beautiful, it's almost symphonic in its arrangement, I do think it takes a spiritual tin ear to hold to the one-dimensional Reformed argument.

3. God, the Creator of all mankind, is merciful and takes no pleasure in punishing sinners. Yet God is also holy and just and must punish sin. Therefore, to satisfy both his justice and his mercy, God has appointed one way of salvation for all, whether Jew or Gentile, in Jesus Christ alone.

No argument here, folks. I'll try to be sparing now about repeating what I've said above.

4. Jesus Christ, who is fully God and fully man, came into the world to save sinners. In his death upon the cross, Jesus was the Lamb of God taking away the sin of the world, of Jew and of Gentile alike. The death of Jesus forever fulfilled and eternally ended the sacrifices of the Jewish temple. All who would worship God, whether Jew or Gentile, must now come to him in spirit and truth through Jesus Christ alone. The worship of God is no longer identified with any specific earthly sanctuary. He receives worship only through Jesus Christ, the eternal and heavenly Temple.

No argument here either. As for the project to rebuild the Temple, I really don't see that Christians regard this as a legitimate alternative to Christianity -- do some? Sad if so, but that hasn't been my impression from the discussions and studies I've been in on about this. As many objectors to this idea point out, its reestablishment would be blasphemy in itself. But it seems to me that's a major theme of the last days, the coming to fruition of the "mystery of inquity."

The blinded Jews want the Temple back, of course, it's part of their heritage as they understand it, and it IS possible to argue from scripture that it must be rebuilt to fulfill certain prophecies of the last days. It's just a type, and in the Christian age it's blasphemy, but may nevertheless very possibly be packed with implications for God's plans for planet earth and indeed the entire cosmos: to glorify Himself in the eyes of the world in the full redemption of the Jews, the root of the tree into which the Gentiles were grafted, and in the judgment of the world. To glorify Himself. The ethnic factor is error, but they aren't Christians -- yet.

5. To as many as receive and rest upon Christ alone through faith alone, to Jews and Gentiles alike, God gives eternal life in his heavenly inheritance.

6. The inheritance promises that God gave to Abraham were made effective through Christ, Abraham's True Seed. These promises were not and cannot be made effective through sinful man's keeping of God's law.

Very true and I don't know any Christian who thinks otherwise.

Continued next post.

Chuck Missler as I'm discovering him

I'm right now mostly engaged in listening to Chuck Missler on various end times topics at Google Videos. Years ago I read some of his pamphlets but was never very interested in them. I think that's because he has a tendency to get off into applying the Bible to news headlines and current affairs, which is just too iffy for me, and because he enjoys speculating about things like quantum mechanics and the science of walking through walls and that sort of thing, which bores me to distraction.

But when he's talking pretty strictly Biblically, as he (mostly) is in the talks I've been listening to, then I can really appreciate him. I don't mind at all if he gets off into speculations that are Bible-based, as he does when he proposes that "the Assyrian" is a better candidate for the final Man of Sin than others, because in the Bible that term does appear at times to refer to a specific but unidentified individual, unlike the similar phrases "the Egyptian" or "the Chaldean" which either refer to known individuals or stand for Egyptians or Chaldeans in general. I ran these through the Concordance and it is interesting that "the Assyrian" definitely has this specific connotation. (And the most famous Assyrian was Nimrod, and Nimrod is considered to be the prototype for all the false gods that have been worshiped by one civilization after another down to the Roman Empire, and then taken up into the Roman Catholic apostasy, as exposed particularly by Alexander Hislop in The Two Babylons. Nimrod is an Antichrist and the Antichrist will have to be in the spirit of Nimrod in any case.)

So I find observations like that to be stimulating possibilities to juggle along with others, and Missler is particularly good at noting such distinctions and patterns in the Bible.

But when he gets off into insisting that "the Lord's day" as used by John in Revelation 1:10 does not refer to John's being in the spirit on a Sunday but to the "Day of the Lord" -- which is where he says John was when "in the Spirit" -- he loses me:

Jamieson Fausset and Brown (JFB) Commentary on Rev 1:10:

on the Lord's day--Though forcibly detained from Church communion with the brethren in the sanctuary on the Lord's day, the weekly commemoration of the resurrection, John was holding spiritual communion with them. This is the earliest mention of the term, "the Lord's day." But the consecration of the day to worship, almsgiving, and the Lord's Supper, is implied in Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2; compare Joh 20:19-26. The name corresponds to "the Lord's Supper," 1Co 11:20.

IGNATIUS seems to allude to "the Lord's day" [Epistle to the Magnesians, 9], and IRENÆUS [Quæst ad Orthod., 115] (in JUSTIN MARTYR). JUSTIN MARTYR [Apology, 2.98], &c., "On Sunday we all hold our joint meeting; for the first day is that on which God, having removed darkness and chaos, made the world, and Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead. On the day before Saturday they crucified Him; and on the day after Saturday, which is Sunday, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught these things." To the Lord's day PLINY doubtless refers [Epistles, Book X., p. 97], "The Christians on a fixed day before dawn meet and sing a hymn to Christ as God," &c. TERTULLIAN [The Chaplet, 3], "On the Lord's day we deem it wrong to fast." MELITO, bishop of Sardis (second century), wrote a book on the Lord's day [EUSEBIUS 4.26]. Also, DIONYSIUS OF CORINTH, in EUSEBIUS [Ecclesiastical History, 4.23,8]. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA [Miscellanies, 5. and 7.12]; ORIGEN [Against Celsus, 8. 22]. The theory that the day of Christ's second coming is meant, is untenable. "The day of the Lord" is different in the Greek from "the Lord's (an adjective) day," which latter in the ancient Church always designates our Sunday, though it is not impossible that the two shall coincide (at least in some parts of the earth), whence a tradition is mentioned in JEROME [Commentary on Matthew, 25], that the Lord's coming was expected especially on the Paschal Lord's day. The visions of the Apocalypse, the seals, trumpets, and vials, &c., are grouped in sevens, and naturally begin on the first day of the seven, the birthday of the Church, whose future they set forth [WORDSWORTH].

It also doesn't seem to me that John would say it that way if he meant he had been transported in vision to the final Day of the Lord, since he would know that the reader would need a great deal of orientation to grasp such an experience. Other prophets, such as Daniel and Ezekiel, very clearly designate where their visions take them, and are careful to describe even the experience of being taken there; they don't leave us with merely an ambiguous phrase to figure out.

So I reject that idea and would rather not even spend so much time on it, but since it's the sort of thing that is likely to come up again and again it's probably best to get my own answer put down as definitely as possible as soon as possible. (It turns out that Missler's objection to the phrase in Revelation has to do with his strong ideas about the Saturday Sabbath, which he calls by the Jewish word "Shabbat." That's a whole complicated discussion I'm not going to get into here -- except to say I disagree with his view of it, and with his use of Jewish terminology for this and other things).

Otherwise I have to say that Missler is a GREAT Bible expositor on topics related to the end times. His argument for the Rapture is Biblically impressive, and he is as Biblically well grounded on the Antichrist and the Book of Revelation as on the Rapture. His solid Biblical perspective contrasts with some discussions of other eschatalogical positions such as amillennialism, where you can get lost in abstractions and rhetorical or poetic Biblical allusions without finding much of an attempt to prove the system from specific Bible verses. If I have the patience I want to try to deal with some of those discussions too.

Missler is masterful at identifying the interrelationships of elements in the entire Bible, patterns that tie it all together. Even if one ends up with a different understanding of, say, the Book of Revelation, than his understanding, it can only be a huge benefit to have heard his discussion of it. He gives such a coherent and thoroughly Bible-referenced overview you can't help but come away feeling you FINALLY understand at least the STRUCTURE of that book and its place in the context of the rest of the Bible.